for instance, if we did go over the fiscal cliff and all of those bush tax cuts expired, then they could go and pass something that would actually be higher taxes than we have today, but lower than the, you know, where we would be then. i mean, this pledge has definitely got some holes in it, and grover himself will concede that. >> you mention that it was passed in the '80s, and for folks who aren't familiar with it, let's put it up here. one, according to the pledge, oppose any and all efforts to impose the marginal income tax rates for individuals or business and impose deductions and credits unless matched dollar for dollar by further tax rates. ana marie met congressman tom cole of oklahoma, saying republicans should support president obama's plan to raise taxes on folks who earn more than $250,000. he repeated that sentiment today. several other republicans said they'll violate his pledge. is there a full fledged revolt now against norquist? >> i think he is losing his influence. i have to add to karen's insight, democrats have elevated him, so has the media. the fact we are talkin